Men Calling Themselves “Feminist”
I had an interesting conversation with a friend the other night who reads this blog, and she suggested an interesting topic:
Men who identify as feminists, but generally won't call themselves "feminist" to people they meet.
Well, I can imagine a few scenarios, specific men, so let's talk about them and unpack them. But before I do that, let me add a point: all the reasons that anyone might not want to identify as a feminist also apply to men. For instance, in our society, "the 'f' word" is a pretty bad word to begin with, no matter who's using it. So just to head off anyone who might note that I haven't included a number of examples of reasons why people would not identify as feminist, what I've written below is me trying to find reasons why men specifically would not want to identify as feminist.
1. Dudes Aren't Supposed to be Feminist
Men aren't supposed to be feminists. In the popular consciousness, men aren't feminists. Women are feminists. Gay men might be feminists. But straight men? Of course not! So there's a lot of disincentives for feminist men to identify as feminist to people they've just met, especially men. A lot of misogynist men will have never met someone who would call themselves a feminist, whatever their gender, and in a lot of social situations, it's not worth the risk of provoking a confrontation.
I think as well, particularly for feminist men who might be new to the movement, and less secure in their identity as a feminist, and less used to the attacks that feminists generally get and feminist men specifically get, it can be very disconcerting for the slurs that can come. It's not particularly fun to have your sexual orientation questioned, and it's usually not germane to a discussion about feminism.
2. A lot of "Liberal" and "Progressive" People Aren't Feminist
Shocking, I know. The issue is, you can be in what you might think would be a safe space for liberal and/or progressive politics. You're with a bunch of people who have similar thoughts on politics and policies, and you say, "Hey, I'm a feminist." The room goes quiet. Feminists are something else, and they're not always welcome in progressive movements.
History is replete with examples such as this. The abolition movement split over including women. Progressive/liberal organizations, such as Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), did not include "women's issues" as a priority when they were formed.
3. Sometimes Feminists are Suspicious of Feminist Men and Rightly So
I've written about this before, in the context of messing up other feminists' stuff. Male feminists can sometimes have a tendency to want to focus on their issues and what they think is interesting within the context of a mixed gender feminist group. That's not always a good thing, because sometimes male feminists, either unknowingly or intentionally (because they aren't feminist) try to subvert the goals of a feminist group. So a lot of feminists are frequently on guard for this. No one wants a "nice guy" coming in to their group whose only goal is to score, make some rhetorical point agains the group to feel good about himself, or just coming in to justify to himself his own misogynist views.
4. They Aren't Feminists
Ultimately, well, they just might not be a feminist. If you're a feminist and you know a male feminist who will only tell you that he's a feminist, and not anyone else, well, he probably isn't a feminist. He might be one of the guys I described in section three above. I think, particularly as a male feminist, and as a male feminist who I like to call a "majority man," (white, cis, hetero, middle class), which are among the harder types of men for feminism to reach, we have a responsibility to self-identify as feminists to act as an example for other men who might be afraid to identify too. I don't wish to overstate the matter, but being a "secret" feminist is a disservice to a movement that needs more vocal men talking to other men about feminism.
Great post and great topic of discussion. I have been meaning to write a blog post about young independent women who don’t identify themselves as feminist because they consider it to be an old-fashioned term, not reflecting current sensibilities or opinions. I find this sad…why do we let others define that word for us? Being a feminist does not mean being anti-men. I’m married and mom to three boys. For me, being a feminist is believing that women are truly equal and deserve the same rights and respect as men. That’s what I try to teach my sons.
Thanks for the comment, Marie! I think women have a whole host of other issues about calling themselves feminist that men don’t really have, such as the history of the word that you mentioned. Men don’t have a whole lot of history with the word, or at least, our history hasn’t changed much.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Meghan Smith, mendaredo. mendaredo said: New blog post: Men Calling Themselves "Feminist" http://bit.ly/gxFUZk #feminism [...]
So it’s okay to be a feminist man, and not just a man allied with feminism? I have encountered some instances where feminist women were uncomfortable with men calling themselves feminists. Or rather, to be more accurate, I have heard that this is the case.
Another question I have regarding being in a mixed social group of men and women of no particular political persuasion. Say there are 3 men and 1 woman. A topic comes up and one of the men makes a sexist remark. As the feminist man, do you (a) call out the sexist remark immediately, or (b) stay silent and see if the woman says anything. See, there’s little more embarassing than calling out sexism as a man only to have the woman in the group say “Oh, I don’t think that’s sexist.”
Anonymous, I actually wrote about that very issue, being a “feminist” versus a “feminist ally” here: http://mendaredo.com/2010/10/23/men-as-feminists/
I agree that that’s a tricky situation. I think a lot of it depends on the people and if you know them. If you know them, you might feel more comfortable calling them out. Maybe it’s the other way around though!
Although this doesn’t address your question, internalized sexism exists among women just as it exists in men. Women can be sexist. And moreover, a women in that situation, even if she does think something is sexist, might not speak up for fear of being labeled a feminist, or not “playing with the boys” and such. So I would actually try to speak up, in the hope that by being a man who speaks up, I can encourage others (men and women both) who might have been afraid to speak up alone.
That being said, I recognize it’s easier said than done. In professional environments, where subjects of politics and hot-button issues aren’t discussed, it can be very difficult to broach these subjects in a way that doesn’t jeopardize your job. Or say in your family, where pointing out sexism might run the risk of alienating a family member. These are difficult issues, and I don’t think there’s a one-size-fits-all answer, unfortunately.
Thanks Jeff! Those were very helpful responses, both.
And I am sorry it took so long for me to reply.
Thanks for this. Re: men identifying as feminists, there are certainly women who don’t like it. I do, and I think the only real solution is to choose what you are most comfortable with and be aware of the fact some women are going to be uncomfortable with it. So long as you do not want to make your feminism all about you, it’s not a problem IMO. :)
As for speaking up, it can suck, and the same thing can happen with racism. As a mostly-white woman I will sometimes be in the situation described wrt race. It’s painful but ultimately non-white people can be racist or simply ignorant too.
Thanks for the kind words, Dana!
I have to admit that the whole discussion of male feminism reminds me of some secret handshake that determines your value as a member of a secret society, or not. I don’t find labels very helpful in talking about gender politics. My mom was a leader in the original feminist movement in the 60s and 70s so I respect her work greatly. But when I founded http://www.thegoodmenproject.com it was to spark a conversation about what it means to be a good husband, father, and man. My view is that how men (and boys) treat women is a core element of that debate. But I have been attacked as not being a strong enough “feminist” voice since I do believe there are ways in which the gender discussion has gotten out of wack on both sides, whether in the area of divorce or abuse or sexuality itself. I would encourage all involved to talk about the actual issues rather than the meta labels that quickly digress into useless name calling (both feminists and men’s rights groups have their own favorite ways of insulting the likes of me). @tmatlack
Hey Tom, could you expand on some of the criticism you’ve gotten? I think it would be really helpful to this discussion. I don’t think that a man dedicated to generating positive discussions examining masculinity, such as yourself, should be excluded in some way from feminist circles. Sounds like you’re addressing many issues of masculinity that could directly relate to feminism. It could be productive to talk about how your discussions of divorce, abuse, or sexuality resulted in attacks.
To the author – Just want to say this blog, the ideas presented, and the subsequent discussions here are totally awesome, and it’s really great to see. Thanks!
Thanks for the kind words, Rhett!
I know that Jeff over at Feminist Allies had some criticisms of the Good Men Project. If Tom doesn’t mind, I can link you to some of the posts:
http://feministallies.blogspot.com/2010/12/good-men.html
http://feministallies.blogspot.com/2011/02/enjoying-takeback.html
http://feministallies.blogspot.com/2011/02/if-i-dont-lurve-good-men-project-am-i.html
Tom,
Let me begin by saying that I welcome anyone who wants to have a conversation about masculinity. I read the Good Men Project pretty religiously. I won’t say that I read all of it, or that I agree with all of it, but I like a lot of your stuff.
As I wrote here (http://mendaredo.com/2010/10/23/men-as-feminists/), I don’t believe that arguing over labels is a very productive thing, but I certainly understand why people do it. Identity is important to people. Some identities, like race are more apparent than others, while others, such as a sexual orientation or ideologies are less so. For identities that are more difficult to overtly ascertain, who can claim your label is important, and I understand why people feel passionately about these kinds of identities. If someone claims your identity who seems to hold views that are anathema to your own, some people might feel as if their identity was diminished, and I don’t begrudge them that.
Speaking as a feminist who sometimes feels a bit uneasy about some of the things I perceive at the Good Men Project (and let me give a tip of the hat to Jeff over at feministallies (http://feministallies.blogspot.com/)), is that sometimes you seem to give equal weight to the MRA views and feminist views, and many feminists (myself included), are troubled by that.
I don’t want to overstate my feedback. I think it’s great that there’s discussions of masculinities aimed at men, because frankly, we’re a hard bunch to reach on these issues. I hope you enjoy Men Dare Do, and I certainly intend to keep on enjoying the Good Men Project.
… is that sometimes you seem to give equal weight to the MRA views and feminist views, and many feminists (myself included), are troubled by that.
What’s so troubling? Are you talking about specific MRA views?
Speaking as a feminist who sometimes feels a bit uneasy about some of the things I perceive at the Good Men Project (and let me give a tip of the hat to Jeff over at feministallies (http://feministallies.blogspot.com/)), is that sometimes you seem to give equal weight to the MRA views and feminist views, and many feminists (myself included), are troubled by that.
I don’t know if it was a reaction to what you’re saying here but if posts likethis are welcome there then I don’t think there will be much of a problem with that.
some of you might be interested in this
http://whatmenare.blogspot.com/
Dear friend,
I’ve just stumbled across your blog. Great stuff. I’m wondering if you’d consider syndicating some of your posts over at XYonline – it’s a well-established and well-known profeminist men’s site. We’d love to publish your work.
Best wishes,
Michael Flood.
thier another opion that i don’t think you’ve touched on why a man wouldn’t be willing to openly call themselfs a “feminist” when they agree with meny of the core pricnilbies is that may not want to be automatic identified with the more extreem elments of the movement. Feminist as you said many times is a very board trem covering a large movement with a great meny differing elements and view points some of which are in conflect with each other. Some of those view points are very extreem and unpleasent to most poeple.
its the same reason alot of amricans hesite to call thems selfs “chirstians” not becuase they aren’t but becouse they don’t want to be identifed with the small but vocal frigne elements who may be anti gay or raceist
Suppose a guy, having met a woman, finds himself in the feminist-label situation. And he says, “Presuming we get to know each other better, you can decide whether I’m a feminist or not.”
Good? Bad? Other?
“3. Sometimes Feminists are Suspicious of Feminist Men and Rightly So
I’ve written about this before, in the context of messing up other feminists’ stuff. Male feminists can sometimes have a tendency to want to focus on their issues and what they think is interesting within the context of a mixed gender feminist group. That’s not always a good thing, because sometimes male feminists, either unknowingly or intentionally (because they aren’t feminist) try to subvert the goals of a feminist group. So a lot of feminists are frequently on guard for this. No one wants a “nice guy” coming in to their group whose only goal is to score, make some rhetorical point agains the group to feel good about himself, or just coming in to justify to himself his own misogynist views.”
It sounds like you got this bit out of a movie, people don’t do this. Telling people in your blog to distrust men is hurting your cause.
“Ultimately, well, they just might not be a feminist. If you’re a feminist and you know a male feminist who will only tell you that he’s a feminist, and not anyone else, well, he probably isn’t a feminist.”
Have some empathy, obviously in the first paragraph you understand the connotation that feminism has. True feminism is supposed to also recognize the problems of males, however the stigma of feminism is derived from feminists who don’t understand this concept. Also the name itself implies that it only promotes one gender (which it does not).
Consider trying the word humanism, same thing without the stigma and the name makes it sound much more inclusive.
[...] Early feminist movements defined feminism as a movement for women, about women and by women, essentially excluding men from any feminist activity. Much of the criticism which feminism has received over the years is that it either beats up on men or that it focuses so much on women’s issues, it ignores men’s issues. As you can imagine this opinion has not helped to garner much support from men and there are a great deal of men who are either hostile to feminism, do not sympathize with the cause, or if they do, are not vocal about it. [...]